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C6 Capto spindle developing cracks

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sskumar
Forums Member
#16 | Posted: 5 Mar 2011 00:12
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Dear Mr Rodzilla,

We are using lot of Mazak machines.But all are CAT 40 and CAT 50 spindles.Only two machines E800 we are using CAPTO.In the total of 15 mazak machines the capto spindle only we replaced 3 times in the span of 1.5 years.

Any small hit or accident the tool will break on the neck of the capto.It will develop an explosive shocks and this shock will make the spindle crack.

I am asking few questions.

1.In my experience CAT 50 and capto C6 there is no big advantges.

2. Any small hit is required to replace the total spindle which is 20 % of the new machines cost.Why it is not possible to service the spindle.

3.Even 3 times failure of the capto design what is the alternative solution from Mazak.

4.We made big loss due Mazak E 800 with capto spindle.

5.Now mazak is telling capto is not the design of Mazak but it is the design of someothers.

6.Finaly I need the conversion of Capto spindle to Cat 50 or Cat 40 spindle.Is it possible

Please clarify

SSKUMAR
jayzak IVST
Forums Member
#17 | Posted: 5 Mar 2011 05:08 | Edited by: jayzak IVST
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sskumar
Their is an alternative to capto and cat style tooling. We have been using KM63 in our integrexs since our first 400 came through the door in 99'. I have not had any sort of issues with KM. Very rigid, and the only time we had to swap out spindles was if their was a crash. Others prefer capto but i personaly having used both, prefer KM. I like dogs, my wife likes cats, its a personal preference. Their is no noticable difference in performance. To answer one of your questions, if the ATC is alingned right, their should be not hits or whacks during tool changes. Mabey you should be a little more carefull with your equipment or take better care of them.
integrexman
Admin
#18 | Posted: 5 Mar 2011 07:24 | Edited by: integrexman
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We have 2 new Integrex's with Capto the rest are KM63. I do not run them but the people that do like Capto so far. I will tell them to keep an eye on the spindle for cracks.

I was at a Mazak open house in Kentucky a few years ago and Sandvik had a demo of KM63, Capto C6, CAT40 and CAT50. They showed the repeatability of all 4 both radial and axial and the shallow taper, face contact tools were much better than the steep tapered tools. The C6 was about the same as a CAT50 as far as the radial loads needed to unseat the tool from the spindle, KM63 was not as strong as the C6 and CAT50 but was not far behind and still way better than CAT40. HSK63, KM63 and C6 are so much better then CAT40 I do not know why any one would buy a machine with CAT40 anymore. They showed a weakness of the KM63, under heavy side loads like rough turning if the KM63 came unseated from the spindle it would stay there and not pull back in without unclamping the tool and re-clamping it. I could see this knowing what the KM63 looks like. But it took a lot more force to unseat the KM63 than a CAT40.

I have been running a 5 axis mill with HSK100A and it is must more ridged than any of our CAT50 mills. I think I would like to have HSK63 in a Integrex any of these shallow taper/face contact tools are better than CAT40 even if it had face contack/bigplus.
jpf2001
Forums Member
#19 | Posted: 19 Jul 2011 04:46
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Look to Kennametal's offering. Capto to KM adapter with 2 different gagelenghts. Maybe this would solve your issue with the Capto spindles. Regards Juergen Puschmann-Frenken
Shovelhead
Forums Member
#20 | Posted: 30 Jul 2011 07:59
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I just read this guys, We have KM63 and capto C6 in our shop. The capto is more rigid and
repeats better. My opinion is stop crashing machine.
sekaran465
Forums Member
#21 | Posted: 26 Feb 2013 19:16
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sskumar
Pl contact me i will help u to over come this problem
c sekaran 9448377981
sekaran465@gmail.com
MikiMajk
Forums Member
#22 | Posted: 27 Feb 2013 00:47
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If you are smart, do not buy the machine with Capto specfication.

Miki
jim
Forums Member
#23 | Posted: 27 Feb 2013 12:49
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our integrex went down yesterday, started off with milling fitting alarm, managed to clear the alarm a few times , then the machine wouldn't run found out the kapto spindle is cracked, looking at 11500 for repair.

Jim
roasted7
Forums Member
#24 | Posted: 16 Jun 2013 10:20
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The cracking must be a Mazak related problem. Our okuma multus with capto C6 has been running around the clock for 5 1/2 years now without a problem.
ClaudeV
Forums Member
#25 | Posted: 29 Jan 2016 09:44
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Our company repairs Integrex spindles. I'm not trolling just letting you know what we see and we see a lot of damaged shafts on Integrex spindle shafts, mostly wear and tear. But some shafts get really smashed up . We can restore all of them at a fraction of the cost of new except CAPTO. The CAPTO is a simultaneous contact so even a little wear and you start to lose many of the advantages. We've checked with several other shops and other contract grinding shops and have not located anyone who can restore CAPTO shafts or grind the CAPTO taper.

My understanding is that CAPTO does provide superior capture and repeatability with tool changes and if you run super precision parts it may be worth it to go with CAPTO. But if you're working to anything around .0005" or bigger the KM or Big Plus styles should be fine and they are repairable. If you crash one of them we can usually fix it. Crash a CAPTO and you're at Mazak's mercy.

And yes we've seen cracks in CAPTO shafts that appear to have been the result of tool changing. Unfortunately we have to decline repair on them.
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