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Tool changer issues... any suggestions?

 
505iceman
Forums Member
#1 | Posted: 27 Apr 2010 12:08
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This Integrex 200 IIIST (40 tool mag, KM63, 640mt) has been getting stuck every now and then when the shifter goes to grab a tool from the magazine and moves out to the ATC side. It shows a black alarm [395 sensor malfunction see D199]. It happens randomly, not on certain tools or pockets. It happens whether I'm in the middle of running a program or using MDI to change tools. In order to get out of it I have to hit Estop, home out the axis, then retract the shifter manually. Keep in mind this machine has some built up gunk on the tool grippers and magazine belt (got machine used). We have tried to clean the grippers on the magazine and the belt behind the grippers and it still gets stuck on some. I've also cleaned the sensor that shoots across the shifter (at an angle from bottom back of machine to upper front) and nothing. I kind of played around with evenly distributed tools on the magazine and it doesn't seem to help much, though today I moved 2 tools around without replacing them and a different tool decided it didn't want to change. I'm out of ideas. If you guys have any other ideas or know whats going on please let me know. Thanks.
Stuart
Forums Member
#2 | Posted: 27 Apr 2010 23:29
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Go into the ladder and monitor it, or find the rung of the ladder that throws the alarm, comment out the ladder and monitor it. You can see exactly what contact or coil is throwing the alarm.

I used to have issues with this when big blobs of grease were getting slung on the prox sensors. You might have a good look at all the sensors and clean them first.

It's not getting stuck, it's really waiting for a confirmation signal before moving on. It's not getting the signal and the process stops and eventually throws the alarm.

You might also check the wiring. I had several componets that were plugged in, but the screws that secured the coils were never tightened. Once I tightened everything up, most of the issues just dissapearred.
onlyonanintegrex
Forums Member
#3 | Posted: 28 Apr 2010 07:42
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I had the same problem on the same machine without the lower turret. I did the same thing cleaning the gunk off the sensors. It would be fine for awhile but then start up again. Turns out one of the sensors was cracked and would let moisture in that fogged up the lens.
Once it was replaced that problem went away.
Hope that helps!
505iceman
Forums Member
#4 | Posted: 28 Apr 2010 11:49
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When the tool does get "stuck" I can always go to the back and pull the tool out, call that tool up (now an empty pocket) and it'll change without problems. It seems to be ok for the first part or two in the morning, after that is when it'll catch on tools. Right now I have only one trouble tool, tool 11. Most of the others change without an issue except every once in a while it'll throw up the error code while in the program. But when it does go to change that tool on the upper turret it does it just fine, then I hit the cancel button and the error goes away.

How many sensors are there to do a tool change? I have only seen the one I mentioned before.

Also I am not familiar with the whole going into the ladder to monitor anything. Where can I find that?

Thanks again for your help guys. Keep the suggestions coming.
onlyonanintegrex
Forums Member
#5 | Posted: 28 Apr 2010 12:59
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I know the 2 sensors that check to see if the tool is there. That would be the set we've already wrote about. I guess one is probably a sender and one a receiver. The one that was cracked looked like they had tightened it too much. Then there has to be a sensor somewhere on the shifter to be sure that it is in the proper position.
I am afraid that is about all the help I can give. I'll look around to see if I have any notes. Did you find the info about the alarm in the book? I dealt with Mazak service and they gave me the directions of what to look at to tell which sensor was not working.
505iceman
Forums Member
#6 | Posted: 28 Apr 2010 13:31
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How could you tell the sensor was cracked? Was it obvious or did you take it out and then notice it?

The D199 comes up with a number 2, saying the X472 (extending side) or X473 (retracting side) limit switch for the shifter didn't turn on after 20 seconds. And thats where the shifter hangs up, when it grabs the tool but doesn't pull it out of the magazine. It puts the tool away no problem but hangs up when it tries to pull the tool out of the magazine.
onlyonanintegrex
Forums Member
#7 | Posted: 28 Apr 2010 15:04
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The service guy found the lens cracked when he took it out. He said the moisture got in and distorted the beam.
Mazak123
Forums Member
#8 | Posted: 30 Apr 2010 16:04
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Stuart, just a heads up. Even the PLC or ladder may not help troubleshooting alarms generated from the MRJ2 which controls the ATC arm. The work independly, and are interfaced by timers. In other words, if PLC dosen't see the "I'm finished with what I'm supposed to do" signal from the MRJ2 in X amount of time, we don't know anything but job not finished in time. Hope this helps.
Stuart
Forums Member
#9 | Posted: 30 Apr 2010 20:58
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No, but it will eventually throw the cycle timer over alarm. I found my issues by figuring out what rung triggered that alarm and worked my way backwards monitoring the status of the coils and I/O. The ladder is amazingly detailed. It would be nice if we knew what some of the definitions were, but then Mazak couldn't sell all the options could they...
Still the ladder is a wickedly cool diagnostic tool. I'm not sure whether it's true, but I've heard several Mazak techs tell me they will get terminated if they get caught poking around in the ladder.

Clearly you can bugger things up really well if you don't know what you're doing, on the other hand it's a powerful tool. I'm somewhat ambivalent on the issue. Except of course that I guess if I caught one of my guys poking in the ladder I'd probably think about getting rid of them as well.... How can I criticize Mazak...
Mazak123
Forums Member
#10 | Posted: 1 May 2010 08:14
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If you cross-reference with the book, you can tell what's what, although some of the definitions are hard to figure out. You sound like you know your way around it pretty well......you are correct, not a good idea to make changes.....
tsmith
Forums Member
#11 | Posted: 18 May 2010 08:37
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Check the carrage that slide between mag and tool changer,
pull the pod out and check to see if the keeper wires are cracked, 2 wires hold the balls in place, Ours cracked and it was letting the balls go out too far and would hang the tool up in the pod.
505iceman
Forums Member
#12 | Posted: 2 Jun 2010 12:00
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Quick update...

I still haven't totally figured out why the tool hangs up but after watching when it happens I figured out that after I get back from the weekend it might have 2 or 3 hangups (same tools) in the morning and be ok the rest of the day. The next day and rest of the week it might have 8 or so hangups (again same tools). It happens in the mornings after around the first full part cycle. It may continue to do that till about 3 hours later and it would work fine for the rest of the day. That's only if I have a part to run all day. If the machine sits idle then it happens for the first 3 or so hours until it warms up. Also If I run the machine in the morning and get to where tools change without hangups, let it sit for an hour or more, then try running again I will have tool changer hangups again for a few part cycles.

We haven't had time to get into the machine and look at anything in detail yet, doubt we will anytime soon. I haven't messed with (probably don't want to either) the ladder at all.

Thanks guys.
Stuart
Forums Member
#13 | Posted: 2 Jun 2010 15:01
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I would look at an intermittant contact in something that sends a signal. When I crfawled inside to sove the parts catcher mystery for myself, I found the electrical connector plug on both coils that fire the solenoid had been installed, but not secured by the allen screw that locks them in place. After tightening the hardware, the probelm went away and I haven't seen it since. I'm not sure if it was the factory or one of the 3 or 4 guys they sent to troubleshoot the problem that forgot the screws.

The ATC isn't a great mystery. There is a lot going on, and the machine checks for confirmation of various states before moving on to the next part of the sequence. If the confirmation isn't sent or received, the sequence halts, waitng for an update. If it quits with the changer and arm on the side that allows a tool change, the next tool change sequence will work if the signal is re-established. If something is out of position you will get an alarm.

If it happens on the first part, are you running in single block? Single block won't allow a complete tool change and you will get a cycle timer over (or similar alarm) or the machine will just sit there... is the green light on the start button on or off when the tool changer hangs up? Hitting reset in the middle of a tool change is a bad idea also.
Toneyard
Forums Member
#14 | Posted: 10 Jan 2014 08:25
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395 sensor malfunction see D199 Tool changer issues

As soon as you get an alarm with the ATC, don't select emergency stop, don't move the shifter, don't shut the machine down, and don't cycle start. (It's o.k. to reset) Go to the back of the machine and remove the lower center panel. It's just to the left and below the magazine door. This will allow you to use a flashlight and see what the shifter is doing.

In our case the shifter went to grab the tool from the magazine but it didn't align with the tool holder and it got jammed against the face of the shifter. We got the 395 alarm because the shifter didn't travel its full stroke. The main thing is, you have to look before clearing the alarm.

This is real important, most alarms with the ATC happen because something mechanical did not reach its full stroke and thus a sensor sent an alarm. The exception to this is the (2) tool beam sensors that detect whether a tool is in the magazine pocket.

Our 2004 Integrex 100-3S magazine pockets are getting sloppy where they join to the magazine chain. Some tools align well with the shifter, some are a little above or below.
We resolved this temporarily by moving the tools that jammed to a stiffer less used magazine pocket. When I say stiffer, I'm not referring to the spring. I'm referring to the movement of the magazine pocket to the chain.

BTW You can also use a step ladder to the left of the machine and look in at most of the tool changer while the machine is running!

Kent WA
rougerandy
Forums Member
#15 | Posted: 29 Apr 2014 13:26
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we have an integrex 400 IV had same tool change issue turned out the B axis was not lining up to it home position relined the b axis no more tool change trouble
 

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